Topic: Losing fat whilst olympic lifting

[Karoliina Lundahl]

Roy,

At 88kg wanting to go under 85kg is not a huge jump in loss of bodyweight. My understanding is that you want some concrete answers on how to get there. By simply eating and drinking healthy, drinking lots of water and exercising will bring your bodyweight down that 3kg.

I'm not going to comment on your personal level of carb intake since I do not know what you do during the day (desk job vs. job that requires physical labor) and how hard you train in these four days that you are in the gym. Maybe you walk or ride your bicycle to work and training, or maybe you drive a car everywhere you go. All these things plus your personal metabolism (age?!?) affect how many carbs you need to be eating during the day.

A simple rule of thumb is that if one is tired throughout the day although one is getting enough sleep, then one needs to up the carb intake. It might be enough with just one more scoop of (brown) rice at dinner or one more (sweet)potato and one feels OK.

Pat LaDuke wrote (sorry, didn't know how that fancy QUOTE thing works...) that you want to eat carbs that have a low glycemic index. I agree with this totally. Since you asked for concrete examples get the South Beach Diet book. In it there is a list of foods according to their glycemic indices. The book also comes with recipes so you can get ideas on how to put together a meal. However since you are an athlete I do not recommend Phases I or II which is a stricter diet meant for overweight people - which at 88kg and a four-pack showing you most likely are not. You will be OK by sticking with Phase III since there are no restrictions on what you should eat. It simply teaches you to make better choices about the things you eat (isn't that what you were asking for?).

Again - as an athlete - you need to keep an eye on your carb intake. Basically you want to focus on getting your carbs in the form of complex carbs (=long term energy) and avoiding overload of simple carbs (=quick energy). When eating an apple, choose a green apple instead of a red one, choose sweet potato over regular potato, brown rice over white rice, etc. This will give you long term energy throughout the day instead of an energy spike with a crash - that's what eating healthy is about.[/quote]

[Jim Storch]

That fancy qoute thing will always appear after all of your text, so you need to click it before you put in your quote or move it into place after you click it.  You also need to click it again at the end of your qoute to make it work correctly.

You can also use "regular" quotation marks if you like.

Fancy quote thing

[Jalaine Ulsh]

With all the information from Atkins, it would seem that high carbohydrate diets are bad.  But the Atkins diet is meant for the morbidly obese who have to lose a huge amount of fat.  In the short term, Atkins turns the body into a fat burner from a carbohydrate burner.  But weightlifters depend almost solely on the body stores of muscle glycogen.  Only a high carbohydrate diet will ensure the quick refueling of those stores.

First, it's probably best not to use studies/websites sponsored by companies like Gatorade as your sole source of educational reference on a topic like this.  Second, usage of muscle glycogen in weightlifting can not (and should not) be inferred to be the same as "high intensity sports".  Most nutritional studies are not done for weightlifting or other strength sports.  

Each person's body partitions macronutrients differently; if I consumed 60-70% carbs, I'd be a fat, miserable wreck.  I personally perform much better on a lower carb, moderate fat, high protein diet.  So you probably shouldn't assume every weightlifter needs to consume a high carb diet to train and recover effectively.

That said, the best initial approach is to clean up your diet - consume foods with one ingredient on the label (like oats, chicken, broccoli).  Make sure you consume enough protein for muscle recovery and consume quality fats like olive oil, fish oil, etc.  You'll probably have to play with your macronutrient ratios; I personally do well on something like 20-30% carb, 40-50% pro, 20% fat.  I tend to consume more carbohydrates after heavy training sessions or on days I train twice; on off days I lower carb intake as I'm not expending as much energy.  But I also handle lower carbohydrate diets very well - you may not feel as energetic/strong with lower carb intake.  Unfortunately, it tends to be something you just have to play with; I can't tell you the macronutrient ratios you'll need.

And do little things like active recovery on your off days to keep your energy expenditure higher.  Even parking as far out as possible and walking in from parking lots helps.

[Roy Lopez]

Hi,

First of all, thanks.

My diet is already quite clean, only that I ate too much, and got fat. I have started to decrease calories, but witht he same food options. I follow a sort of "natural food" diet. I eat food as they were brought to earth, so I eat lots of meat, fish, eggs, dairy (not milk though), fruit and vegetables. I also avoid grains, and I feel better when following this type of diet.

I am also supplementing with brewer yeast, vitamin C (4 to 5 grams daily), cod liver oil and zinc.

My intention is to drop below 85 kilos, and I estimate with about 83k, I would have a six pack. Currently, I am somehow strong (150 kilo back squat, I have cleaned 110 kilos easily) and have muscle, but my technique is very flawed. I am working a lot on the technique, and whilst progress is slow (mainly due to inconsistency), it is coming along.

Coach has me do all the skill movements, and then we would do pulls with about 85% of our clean/snatch for reps, then squats in the 85% range and then we alternate days with barbell rows, pull ups, push presses, etc. I train 4 days a week, and so far, my strength on the squats is coming up, whilst I lose weight (i believe it is fat).

I have read the same as Jalaine mentions, that weightlifting does not require much carbohydrate, as the energy pathways are different. Sure, taking cabrohydrates after training is important, but the rest of the day can be made up of protein and fats. If you are like me (most fat located in love handles and lower back) and believe that your own metabolism of carbohydrates is not optimal, then this fact is a god-send.

What I have been doing is eating 5 to 6 bananas right after the workout, along with some whey. The rest of the day, I eat protein, fats and salad. I would eat four times a day, and my protein intake is over 1 gram per pound of bw. I estimate I take in about 100 grams of carbohydrates on training days (post workout plus salads), whilst I take about 60 on off training days.

I wanted to collect opinions on the different diets used here, so I appretiatte all the input. It is a fact that a proper diet can help weightlifting, despite many coaches do not think so.

[Jalaine Ulsh]

I would choose a different post workout carb source than bananas, merely because fructose will primarily be used to replenish liver glycogen.  If you're trying to lose bodyfat, I'd recommend only using a small amount of simple sugars post workout as weightlifting really doesn't deplete muscle glycogen that much.  But instead of all simple sugars, use a small amount in a post workout drink (pro+carb) and then eat a solid meal comprised of lower insulin index carbs (like oats, whole grain pasta, brown rice, etc) and protein.

One thing studies HAVE supported is that pre-workout consumption of easily digestible protein aids in muscle recovery.  As I train at a weight slightly higher than my weight class, I drink whey isolate 30 min - 1 hr before I train, and eat one solid meal after (my team trains in the evening - usually until 8:00 pm).  This has helped me continue to gain strength while not gaining weight.  So I don't even consume simple sugars post workout - I experimented and found as long as I consume an adequate amount of carbohydrate before my next training session, I recover fine.  BTW - I work full-time and have 6 training sessions/week.

[Paul LaDuke]

Jalaine Ulsh wrote

First, it's probably best not to use studies/websites sponsored by companies like Gatorade as your sole source of educational reference on a topic like this. Second, usage of muscle glycogen in weightlifting can not (and should not) be inferred to be the same as "high intensity sports". Most nutritional studies are not done for weightlifting or other strength sports.

No one is more aware or trepidacious of the crap on the internet trying to masquerade as legitimate nutritional information.  I am constantly brought stuff by the athletes for my opinion.  Most of it is junk from the internet trying to sell get big quick junk based on psuedo-science.  The Gatorade Sports Science Institute is an outstanding reference for nutritional information.  All of their articles written are from outside, highly credible sources.  Their information is as highly credible as any refereed journal and I do believe it is a refereed journal.  To lump their information into the same category as websites selling the latest supplement or fad diet is a huge mistake and you will miss out on a wealth of free information from some of the leading sports nutritionists at universities throughout the country.  

Secondly, it is my opinion that training for weightlifting IS a high intensity activity.  The primary energy pathway for the sport of weightlifting is the ATP-PC energy system.  This makes it a high intensity sport.  The Lactic Acid system may come into use depending on the density of the exercise session or the length of the session.  Therefore, replenishing muscle glycogen is important for a weightlifter.  Recovery nutrition within an hour of lifting is very important and should contain a 50-50 mix of low-glycemic carbs and proteins to facilitate faster recovery.  I still maintain a diet of 60-70% carbs is recommended for most weightlifters in serious training.  But, as you say, everyone is different and every body is different.

[Jalaine Ulsh]

Secondly, it is my opinion that training for weightlifting IS a high intensity activity.  The primary energy pathway for the sport of weightlifting is the ATP-PC energy system.  This makes it a high intensity sport.  The Lactic Acid system may come into use depending on the density of the exercise session or the length of the session.  Therefore, replenishing muscle glycogen is important for a weightlifter.  Recovery nutrition within an hour of lifting is very important and should contain a 50-50 mix of low-glycemic carbs and proteins to facilitate faster recovery.  I still maintain a diet of 60-70% carbs is recommended for most weightlifters in serious training.  But, as you say, everyone is different and every body is different.

I would love to see the studies you have showing the degree to which weightlifting depletes muscle glycogen.  To my knowledge, the studies done on high intensity sports were for sports like basketball, not weightlifting.  But I have an open mind.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Jalaine and Paul,

Very interesting discussion. I would think that although our sport is predominantly dependent on the PC-ATP energy system for single attempts, training situations where the repetitions per set and overall volume are higher might be another matter. With longer duration of exercise (more reps and sets), the glycolytic system would surely play a larger role.

I know when I lived at the OTC, the resident nutritionist was always complaining that I wasn't getting enough carbohydrate. I can't recall the exact recomendation from her, but I believe it was around 50-60%.

Regards